Is the shoemaker notable enough?

The backward facing man by Aristeidis Metallinos

Είναι ο τσαγκάρης αρκετά ξεχωριστό; Getting an entry in Wikipedia isn't straightforward. Rightly so. In the case of the sculptor Aristeidis Metallinos** - more or less unknown outside his home village of Ano Korakiana -  eligibility for an entry revolves around establishing that he is sufficiently 'notable'.

«Αυτός είμαι εγώ» ~ "That's me". Aristedes Metallinos 1980 (cat.92)*

Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk
09:35:02, 25 June 2014 review of submission by Sibadd[edit]
Sibadd (talk · contribs) (TB) Draft:Aristedes Metallinos (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Simon Baddeley (talk) 09:35, 25 June 2014 (UTC) 

Hello, Simon, what is your question about the draft? — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:03, 27 June 2014 (UTC) 

I have been able to obtain references to the work of this subject and have added them to the draft article. I have also uploaded a commons image that I submit for inclusion https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pressing_the_farmer%27s_olive_oil.JPG Simon Baddeley (talk) 09:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC) Simon Baddeley (talk) 09:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC) 

@Sibadd: I looked for your sources. The book you're calling Culture and Heritage Combined is in Greek and called Politistika kai mouseiologika symmeikta. I wasn't able to find Anthology of Literature and Art and I suspect you've translated that title, too. Wikipedia allows for non-English sources but I can't accept what I can't verify. I also noticed that your subject doesn't have an article in Greek Wikipedia yet.

  If Greek Wikipedia had an AfC project I might be more willing to accept a translated version here. As it is, I don't read Greek so I'm not willing to assume good faith on sources. I haven't declined your submission because Aristedes Metallinos might be notable and I'd be willing to wait for an editor that can read those sources to decide. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:35, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Wikipedia editor: The issue is that nothing in the article says why the gentleman is notable. We don't need him to be unique, just notable. Please build your article around the references. Mari's biography looks like a useful source. Ideally please add links to on-line versions of the references. This is not compulsory, but we write for ordinary readers who like tine instant gratification of being able to see what is written in the reference with ease. Fiddle Faddle 09:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC) 

Γιάννη Μ Μαρή (1978) Βιογραφικό - Αριστείδης Ζαχ. Μεταλληνός, Απάνθισμα Γραμμάτων και Τεχνών, Επιμέλεια Εκδόσεως, Αθήναι, σελ. 611-617

I had submitted this draft:

The sculptor Aristeidis Zacharias Metallinos (Άριστείδη Μεταλληνοῦ), brother to Spiros and Xthoforos, one of three sons of Zacharias and Eleni Metallinos, was born in 1908 (no official record of birth date) and died at 79 on 19 May 1987. He spent the greatest part of his life working as a general craftsman in the village of Ano Korakiana on the island of Corfu in Greece. Despite early evidence of his imaginative talent as a carver of stone, Metallinos was prevented by poverty from artistic training. He did not begin his work as a self-taught sculptor until 1973, when at the age of 67 until his death in 1987, he fulfilled a long held intention of creating, in local stone and marble, a unique record of the fast changing social life of the village’s pastoral economy, emphasising the role of the family and traditional customs. To this the sculptor carved, as his work evolved, a commentary on human nature and the world - one that was often pungent, erotic and at times ribald. His work of over 250 pieces, nearly all completed in the last 12 years of his life, is kept together in a family museum in Ano Korakiana - a museum he built himself, intending it as a gift to the village. Aristeidis' first wife, Eleni, died childless. The sculptor was married again, late in life, to Angeliki, who bore him two children, Andreas and Maria. Andreas and his wife Anna continue to live in Ano Korakiana in the museum that houses a unique collection of work largely unknown outside the village in which it was created.  

References: 

Yianni M Mari (1978) Biography - Aristidis Zach. Metallinos, Anthology of Literature and Art, Epimelia Publications, Athens, pp. 611-617  

Evrydiki Antzοulatοu-Retsila (2005) ‘The folklore of Corfu in the art of the traditional stone-sculptor Aristidi Metallinou’, in Evrydiki Antzοulatοu-Retsila (editor), Culture and Heritage Combined, Papazisis Publications, Athens, pp. 47-70 [ISBN: 960-02-1860-9] 

My reply to the Wiki editor:

Dear Timtrent. Thanks for your swift response on my latest draft on the laic (lay) sculptor Aristedes Zacharias Metallinos. Publications about this man are in Greek. I have been striving to arrive at accurate translation, hence the time I am taking. So far as I can discover only one of the references I quoted is on line - that by Evrydiki Antzoulatou-Retsila . This link is only a reference to the compilation rather than the original article about Metallinos by the same author in 1985. 

Evrydiki Antzoulatou-Retsila (1985) ‘The folklore of Corfu in the art of the laic stone-sculptor Aristidi Metallinou’, article in Miriovivlos Periodical, issue 7, pp. 37-4 

Antzoulatou-Retsila's reputation as an expert on the study of Hellenistic folklore is established. I am striving via another academic source to contact her to see if there is an on-line transcript of her 24 page article (with images) about Metallinos. I'm relieved that you say this is not essential to establish the artist's notability, but that more of what is written in the article by Mari should be in my submission. Have I understood you correctly?
I will work, as you kindly suggest, on the Mari biography. This is a mere 130 words long (in Greek) containing a rather rough photo of the Metallinos' face as a young man and images of some of his sculptures. I can find no on-line record of this book, though I have held Mari's publication - a collection of biographies - in my hands. I will work on weaving this short biography more effectively into the Wikipedia draft. What do you think? Metallinos is an interesting man - an artisan who took to sculpture in stone and marble in the last 12 years of his life producing at least 250 works; worthy in my view, and I hope yours, of an entry. Outside the academic articles I have found, Metallinos' works are almost unknown, being contained in a closed museum, where I have viewed them, in the village of the artist's birth.
Your continued tutelage would be valued. I have made several 'successful' contributions to Wikipedia, but I am finding this the most challenging. Best wishes Simon Baddeley (talk) 08:05, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Reply: There is every reason to have references in Greek, they are allowed. However that does not help when one attempts to assess an article. It will simply delay matters, but that is fine. Time we have. What we want to achieve is for the raft to be good enough to accept with small risk of nomination for deletion.

Find sources: "Aristedes Zacharias Metallinos" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free imagesFind sources: "Aristedes Metallinos" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free imagesFind sources: "Άριστείδη Μεταλληνοῦ" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free imagesBoth of those may help you.

Fundamental to any wikipedia article is knowing in the very first sentences why the topic, in this case the gentleman, is notable. We need something like "Aristedes Metallinos produced over 250 sculptures, one of which sold recently for $1,.5m, and is acknowledged as the premier sculptor of Greece" This is patently untrue, but has the notability one requires that one requires

Find any media coverage about him.

Read User:Timtrent/A good article. Have good luck! Fiddle Faddle 13:00, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Shoemaker of the village Ο τσαγκάρης του χωριού ~ Aristeidis Metallinos 1980 (cat. 19)

A conundrum. Aristeidis Metallinos is, to all intents and purposes, unknown outside Ano Korakiana. A couple of people wrote about him when he was alive - Yianni M Mari in 1978 and Evrydiki Antzoulatou-Retsila in 1985. Metallinos waits to be re-discovered, as his grand-daughter said a few months ago, "after thirty years."
Of those few who have seen his work since his death twenty seven years ago, some are impressed, some not. This is the way with undiscovered things. Private views have not become public opinion, personal opinion has not become a verified judgment; our subjectivity has not become objective.

Ο καλλιτέχνης σε ώρα δημιουργίας σου έργο του ~ Aristeidis Metallinos 1984  (cat. 37)

Angeliki Metallinos in her grandfather's museum

*I'm grateful to the family of the sculptor for permission to post images of work displayed in the 'museum' in Ano Korakiana. 

A few hours later...

Talkback[edit]

Hello, Sibadd. You have new messages at Timtrent's talk page.
Message added 13:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Fiddle Faddle 13:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Your submission at AfC Aristedes Metallinos was accepted[edit]

Aristedes Metallinos, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:17, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Start class is defined thus: An article that is developing, but which is quite incomplete and, most notably, lacks adequate reliable sources. More detailed criteria. The article has a usable amount of good content but is weak in many areas, usually in referencing. Quality of the prose may be distinctly unencyclopedic, and MoS compliance non-existent; but the article should satisfy fundamental content policies, such as BLP, and provide enough sources to establish verifiability. No Start-Class article should be in any danger of being speedily deleted...My message to the rejecting editor:

It looks as if 'my' article on Metallinos has been accepted, but I believe with you that the subject needs and deserves further verification in line with your advice above, i.e entry on Greek Wikipedia, translation of available academic reference material woven into the piece and images of the artist's work that support the key concept of 'notability'. Thank you for your continued interest. I am encouraged to persevere with the article by Wiki's trust in my good faith in an untrustworthy world. Simon Baddeley (talk) 10:46, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

An entry for Aristeidis Metallinos is now in Wikipedia - now to improve the article!**

**And already this is happening...and my puzzled vexation at the same sounding Greek letters ι, η and υ (iota, eta and upsilon) and the vowel digraph ιε - has come at me full tilt - and what's 'ιε' is there's a tonos on one of the letters - εί? Phew:

Aristeidis Metallinos English spelling of Αριστείδης
Dear Konstantinos. Thanks for your interest in this article. You just have edited the English version of the first name of the sculptor Αριστείδης Μεταλληνός to 'Aristeides'. I have been regularly confused about the sculptor's first name in English, spelling it - at different times - as 'Aristides', 'Arestides and 'Aristedes', and now, I guess, 'Aristeides'. My Greek tutor told me a while ago that in demotic Greek orthography 'ei' is one of the consonant combinations in the language that is pronounced and usually written as the Latin 'i' . Thus 'i' can be spelled η, ι, υ, ει, οι, or υι (I quote from one of my language textbooks, and apologise for trying to talk to you about your language and mine when you write both impeccably). To add to my confusion, the English version of the sculptor's name outside the museum in Ano Korakiana has been spelled 'Arestides' by the sculptor's son Andrea Metallinos, who has carved it on a marble plaque there! On the advice of a Greek friend I altered the name I had been using ('Aristides') to 'Aristedes', having been following my understanding of Greek consonant combinations. Does the τόνος on the 'ι' determines that 'i.e.' is the best Latin/English version of the Greek 'εί' in the sculptor's name? Can you assure me that the most correct English/Latin spelling of the name is the one you have written, i.e. 'Aristeides' and that this definitely is the same as 'Αριστείδης'? If this is assured then I will alter my previous references where they are on my blog - Democracy Street - and in future correspondence and writing about the artist. I am further confused because the English Wiki entry on [[Aristides}} allows the following 'Aristides (/ˌærəˈstaɪdiːz/; Greek: Ἀριστείδης, Aristeides'. Are you more or less confident that no-one will in future challenge the spelling 'Aristeides'? I hope very much that we may remain in touch as I may have other advice I need.
On another matter I am hoping that someone can create a version of this article in Greek Βικιπαίδεια. What do you think? Τους θερμούς μου χαιρετισμούς Simon ~~~~ (talk) 14:04, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Reply: Hello and thanks for creating the article in the first place! The issue of transliterating Greek names is complex, and there is no single method of doing it. Modern Greek names are usually transliterated letter-by-letter, so you get "Aristeidis" or "Aristeides". Then there is the old Latinized form, familiar since antiquity, "Aristides", but for some reason latinized forms seem to be avoided for modern Greeks in English. A purely phonetic rendering of the modern pronunciation would give you "Aristidis" or even "Aristidhis". Any of these forms are fine, really, they are not mutually exclusive. What was wrong was the form "Aristedes", which, while phonetically close, was not an accurate transcription of the name. The rule of thumb with transliterating is that one should be able, going backwards, to arrive at the original form, and for "Aristedes" this would be something like Αριστήδης. Anyhow, given that the artist is rather unknown outside Greece, and there is no preferred form (i.e. he himself had no preferred way of spelling it in the Latin alphabet or an established usage in the press/literature/etc.), I thought the best way was to simply use a straight-up transliteration. Constantine ✍ 15:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC) 

**From now on I shall use the spelling 'Aristeidis' as the Latin-English version of 'Αριστείδης' 
***** *****
A bearded old fisherman saw Oscar  on the towpath with me yesterday
"Aha! A Jack Russell. So good you haven't docked him"
"His moods are in his tail. The Parson didn't dock Trump"
"Too right, but Jack Russell's are pedigreed now"
"Oh no no! That lot can't get their hands on our Oscar. Such rubbish!"
"I know I know"
"The dog-farmers want paperwork to advertise to customers. There's no such thing as a pure breed Jack. Oscar's half Border Terrier anyway. His dad was called Biscuit"
"Dead right"
"Good fishing"
Irony. I'm striving to establish the deserved  'notability' of Aristeidis Metallinos - not that he would care so much I suspect -  while delighted that Jack Russell's can't be 'pedigreed'. The Rev John Russell did his selection with a gun in the fields and tho' he did found that dismal breed certifying institution he never registered his terrier with it.

Trump

"The difference between my dogs and the conformation dogs can be likened to the difference between a wild and cultivated flower"
There you go. Oscar's a wild flower!

Oscar

On a wet grey mid-summer weekend I cycled in with Oscar via the Mainline canal to have a meal in town with my daughter Amy and grandson Oliver, Amy's best friend Liz and her baby Sophia. The meal was disappointing which is unusual, and costly. I grumbled and got a small discount. Later we strolled down Edgbaston Street to shop in the markets - Oliver riding pillion as I walked my Brompton towards the stalls

With Oscar and Oliver in the Birmingham markets